E30 GTi Actually Kind of Works...

"Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney" (braddelaparker) 02/01/2017 at 12:36 • Filed to: None

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Except that it’s basically just an E30 Compact instead of a GTi.

TheHondaBro > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 02/01/2017 at 12:39

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That departure angle tho.

for Michigan > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 02/01/2017 at 12:42

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Would daily.

jasmits > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 02/01/2017 at 12:45

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I like in the same way I like my own ugly duckling

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > TheHondaBro 02/01/2017 at 12:48

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Throw it in reverse to get that crawl ratio and just climb everything in reverse. The front end would make for a horrific departure angle until you ripped the front bumper off, at which point it would be unstoppable.

AuthiCooper1300 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 02/01/2017 at 12:48

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Many, many years ago I read somewhere that when BMW were testing the very first Compact mules based on the E36 body they discovered that the bobtailed car was actually faster around the Nürburgring (or was it Miramas, BMW’s own test track?) than a very powerful E36 (it may even have been an M3 testbed, I am not sure).

So they proceeded to “downgrade” the rear suspension of the production cars by fitting the Z3 one (basically E30).

On the other hand that does not explain why in the second Compact (E46-based) they kept the whole E46 setup. But the E46 Compact looked horrid anyway, so who cares.

There is a lot to be said in favour of short overhangs, low polar moment of inertia etc...

Good Photoshop, by the way. The fact that the rear bumper fits a bit so-so almost had me fooled.

TheHondaBro > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 02/01/2017 at 12:48

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Breakover angle still kills it. Needs moar lift.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 02/01/2017 at 13:15

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I LOVE THIS. Please proceed to un-trunk everything.

Everyone, can we get this guy a mass trunk-removal grant?

jasmits > AuthiCooper1300 02/01/2017 at 13:20

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That just isn’t true, it’s a combination of the semi-trailing arm design being cheaper, more compact and the Compact not producing enough power for the more tail-happy handling characteristics to matter.

There’s also no way a Compact was faster with half the horsepower, 500 pounds doesn’t make that much of a difference

Now if the mule had a 6 I’d believe it, lightness does wonders for lap times. That isn’t why they went with the older rear suspension design though.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 02/01/2017 at 13:37

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Trust me, if it weren’t for the multiple deadlines I’m staring down at the office this is how I would spend the rest of my day.

AuthiCooper1300 > jasmits 02/01/2017 at 13:42

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OK.

I never said it was “true”. I am pretty certain it was in a British car magazine and it was mentioned as a rumour at the time. I’d love to remember which one it was though.

All the reasons you mention about the semi-trailing arm being less expensive and less intrusive are very sound, but I wonder if economies of scale wouldn’t have actually made it much cheaper to use the whole E36 platform (instead of just half of it), probably even in the same assembly line. That is what they did with the the second Compact series, strangely enough.

The rumour did not mention what kind of engine that mule was using (bear in mind we are talking about prototypes here, not production models: I am pretty sure at first BMW also toyed with the idea of much more powerful Compacts, not what the US market got). Indeed it could well have been a six-cylinder. In fact there was later a 323ti with a 2.5 engine (in Europe) which was considered to be a pretty decent car.

I am less interested in a purely academic discussion about which one was “faster”, but in the fact that all things being equal, that rear overhang does considerably affect the handling.

jasmits > AuthiCooper1300 02/01/2017 at 13:53

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TBH all academic arguments aside I love the way my Compact handles, although I have never had the chance to drive a normal E36 hard.

I have driven an E30 325es hard and that’s also a lot of fun(more old-school, less precise, slower:similar level of fun)

AuthiCooper1300 > jasmits 02/01/2017 at 14:09

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Well, the E30 M3 had excellent old-school handling, so there is no reason why a first-gen Compact wouldn’t be effective or fun - on the contrary.

Having said that a very light, bobtailed E36 would probably be better balanced and more progressive than the original Compact, and ultimately “faster” (or quicker).

In Europe quite a few people fit (E36) M3 engines into the old Compacts –as BMW themselves did as a gift to a magazine (see http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/09/28/bmw-actually-made-e36-m3-compact-model/ ). Never tried one but it seems their owners love them to bits, more so even than a regular E36 M3.

What would be quite interesting would be to fit a four-pot (E30) M3 engine and uprated suspension into the first Compact body.

jasmits > AuthiCooper1300 02/01/2017 at 16:30

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My dream is to put an S50/52/54 in with appropriate suspension and brake upgrades. Who knows if I’ll ever make it happen

AuthiCooper1300 > jasmits 02/01/2017 at 16:50

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Nice project. Just don’t despair. It may take longer than you expect or think... or not.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > TheHondaBro 02/01/2017 at 17:01

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didn’t even think about that, it’s horrific!

jasmits > AuthiCooper1300 02/01/2017 at 17:38

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I’ve read up on it. It’s a lot easier than most engine swaps because things are pretty much compatible but it is still an engine swap.

Also I quite like the 4, I feel like it’s a big part of the character of the car. It has some Dinan bolt ons and a nice exhaust. It’s actually pretty rev happy and makes a good noise. But it would be so bad ass with a big six. Either way, it’s off the table until I get a third car because I wouldn’t want to commit to dailying my second gen 4Runner indefinitely.

AuthiCooper1300 > jasmits 02/01/2017 at 17:53

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Yes, that is the nice thing about BMW swaps. By choosing parts carefully they can be almost bolt-on. I think that for the Euro M3 engine people use the E36 328 propshaft, for instance.

I also get what you say about the charms of the four. With a big six up front the car is going to be a bit of a hotrod! A powerful (if pointy) four-cylinder would make it better balanced and much more agile in the twisties. Unfortunately the price of S14 engines must be pretty impossible nowadays.

Best of luck with your project. I suppose you’ll keep us posted!

jasmits > AuthiCooper1300 02/01/2017 at 18:33

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I would imagine that an S14 would be a lot of money for 50 horsepower and 15 ft/lbs.

Will do! Don’t expect anything in the near future haha